Nice work. --Michael Z. 2005-08-5 20:39 Z
Maps, Directions, and Place Reviews
All the brackets
Do we really need all the bracketed vowels (like the mid versions of e & ø; central of a)? It's getting a wee bit cluttered. Sure, some languages use /a/ to refer to a central vowel, but that's because most languages don't actually use the cardinal vowels for their phonemes. I think it's okay to just to cut it back a bit... --Felix the Cassowary (?e h?: j?) 06:00, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
- Ask Kwami about it. (S)he added the bracketed mid vowels to it. Denelson83 06:26, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
I think we should stick the the chart as published by IPA, as that is the title. Anyway, duplicating symbols is confusing. In some relevant articles we could add a few words that the position actually indicates whole area around it. Every language dialect has its own precise positions. -Woodstone 12:27:29, 2005-09-10 (UTC)
After Effects Title Template Video
Other vowels?
Hi Denelson,
On the consonant table you created asterisked links to the consonants not supported by the IPA. Would you want to do something similar for the vowels? There's a Near-close near-back unrounded vowel as well as three close compressed vowels (links at the close rounded vowel articles).
Just a thought.
kwami 07:38, 2005 September 12 (UTC)
Wrapping in Safari
Some of the pairs are wrapping for me in Safari. I am viewing at the default text size, but different font specified in my User monobook.css. Here's a rendering: [1]. I could try to fix this myself, but I'd rather leave it to someone who's familiar with this template. --Michael Z. 2005-10-18 18:05 Z
Nice
Just found this.. its an excellent feature here on the wikipedia. If there were featured templates like there are featured articles and pictures, this would be one. Good work to those involved. drumguy8800 - speak? 03:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Slanting
Why does it slant? The open-front-unrounded vowel is below where it says near-front. Why is that? ~ Ghelæ talkcontribs 16:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Chart broken when image broken?
Hmm, it looks like when there is a problem loading the image, then the vowels on the chart are positioned starting about halfway down the chart, with the bottom half of vowels displayed on top of whatever is below the chart.
I don't quite grok the interaction of CSS and WikiMarkup here, so I'm not going to try to fix it myself, but you can see what it looks like by setting your browser to not load images, or by firewalling upload.wikimedia.org. Cheers, Vectro 04:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
IPA formatting
I restored IPA formatting ( {{IPA}} ) to the chart so that it displays properly. However, I did not do this in Commons, as I don't know how widespread support is for that template. kwami (talk) 06:36, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
/?/ & /oe/
In both of my browsers (Firefox and Safari), the open front rounded and open-mid front rounded show up with the same symbol, /oe/. This is only in the rendered text (not in the edit window), but I have no problems with any of the other IPA symbols here (such as the common confusion of /?/ with /a/). Is this a known bug, or is it just me, or is there a problem with the symbol we've used? -- 'z?z?v? (talk) 06:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
converged with Commons
This template and the one on Wikimedia Commons had diverged quite a bit, and both still had some of the DIVs too small to contain the symbols in my preferred font of Lucida Sans Unicode. I've updated them both now and added comments to indicate the site-unique bits. Not R (talk) 23:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
In Articles
If it creates extra space (that is, when put beside text, a line of white space appears), then report to bugzilla.96.53.149.117 (talk) 04:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Double template
The same graph is in {{vowels}}. btw, is the commons-copyedit still to be maintained? (that is #3), exclusing the picture. -DePiep (talk) 14:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Merger proposal
N Not done and not likely to be done (See #Closing: Not merged, solved different) -DePiep (talk) 22:21, 13 July 2010 (UTC) Propose Template:Vowels(edit talk links history) into Template:CSS IPA vowel chart(edit talk links history).
- Reason: Duplication. Both templates have the same subject, the IPA vowel chart.
- Direction of merge: the target title is more descriptive, so we want to use that one. Number of usages (transclusions), that would use a Redirect, not looked at. -DePiep (talk) 09:33, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
As noted at Consonants, one of these templates is a shell that transcludes the other. There is no duplication. -- kwami (talk) 10:44, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
The vowel template is unconnected from this template because it is different. The purpose of the vowel template is to provide navigation for articles some of which are for sounds that are not on the IPA vowel chart. It seems unlikely that you are proposing to add non-standard symbols to this template; assuming that you are not proposing that, there is a need for a separate navigation template. --Pi zero (talk) 23:48, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Merging IPA/non-IPA symbols: Roundup & solution
Template:Vowels(edit talk links history) and Template:CSS IPA vowel chart(edit talk links history).
-DePiep (talk) 14:10, 7 July 2010 (UTC) Addition on float -DePiep (talk) 16:47, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Merging {{Vowels}} and {{CSS IPA vowel chart}}: Roundup & solution
Template:Vowels(edit talk links history) and Template:CSS IPA vowel chart(edit talk links history).
I understand the point by Pi Zero above: one is a navigation, the other is the basic chart (table).
I have separated these two functions. Now {{IPA vowel chart}} is the basic chart (table, trapezium). Is can be used on its own (as is done in IPA#vowels). And {{Vowels}} is the navigation box: standard navigation style. And it transcludes the basic trapezium {{IPA vowel chart}}.
The navbox {{Vowels}} has some non-standard styles (non-standard for Navboxes). First: It floats to the right, which was the location of the handcoded version. So the using article pages are not disturbed. Second: it has a fixed width (navboxes normally talke full 100% width). This too is so not to disturb existing page-layout. Third: I rmoved the page (rennamed) tfrom "CSS IPA vowel chart" to "IPA vowel chart". The reason is that the used technique is not relevant to the using editor.
As noted in the section above (and the template/doc), both templates take a variable option "shownonIPA=yes" or "shownonIPA=no", as to show or hide non-IPA's. Default =yes.
If this looks OK for fellow editors & wikiusers, I will consider the Merge-proposal finished. -DePiep (talk) 16:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Closing: Not merged, solved different
Discussion lead to a different outcome:
- The bare table need his own template, for in-line usage in articles.
- The navbox Vowels can transclude the trapezium-table, and do a full navigation-task.
- Including non-IPA letters is by option (variable "shownonIPA=no", see documentation) BUT does not occur in Vowels.
- Both templates have their own function now, and they are connected (which is different from before).
- Dropped "CSS" from the name (by Move)
- Other changes pertain to layout, and are out of scope now.
This has already been implied. See also: {{Consonants}}, with the same construction. -DePiep (talk) 22:26, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
layout: bad visibility near-close near-front rounded vowel
(separated from the main thread DePiep ~00:35h).
Propose removing footnote on Long
Let's remove the footnote A long vowel is indicated by appending :
- It's not in the original IPA vowel chart
- There are more suprasegmentals (and diacritics for that matter) we could mention here. It's an arbitrary selection now.
-DePiep (talk) 04:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Done -DePiep (talk) 03:00, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Using the bullet in the footnote on rounded-unrounded
See IPA talk here. Problem was: the bullet in footnote showed different from the graphic itself in some browsers. Solution(1): The bullet was removed from the footnote altogether here by rewording. Solution(2): Later on it occurred, the problem might be solved by using, in the footnote, {{IPA}} as is done in the graph: {{IPA|{{·}}}}. Conclusion: since (2) is less ad hoc and does allow us to use a bullet, it should be used when adding a bullet to the template. -DePiep (talk) 08:17, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Mid vowels
I've recently turned mid front unrounded vowel into an article (splitting content formerly at close-mid front unrounded vowel. Because the split proposal has so far been uncontested for over a year, I anticipate the creation of mid front rounded vowel, mid back rounded vowel, and mid back unrounded vowel. Could someone adjust the vowel chart accordingly as we did with e.g. near-close near-front rounded vowel? I lack the technical sophistication to do it myself. -- Ƶ§oe?¹ [a?m 'f?????????i] 19:07, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ So missing vowels are, with current links: [ø?], [o?] or [??]. Symbols should have a link to an article, through the list in {{IPAsym}}. Don't let the error intimidate you! Just write here which article link you expect for a symbol. -DePiep (talk) 13:51, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Clutter
Recently some additions were made to this template, that consist of symbols that only differ from existing ones by diacritics. In my opinion that creates unnecessary clutter. Remember that this template is used in many linguistic articles to give a quick view of the structure of the IPA vowel system. Adding a lot of extra symbols and diacritics has a deterring effect on less specialistic readers. We should consider to remove them again. Diacritics have standard sound altering meaning and are not needed in an overview. -Woodstone (talk) 08:04, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Technical possiblilities
Technically, we could enlarge the template to show more of the background grid line. This would have a layout effect in the articles where it is used (filling up the introduction section, pushing away the regular text). Another possibility: differentiate between usage of the template in the {{IPA navigation}} and in article text. A switch parameter could be set to: "only show this symbol in navbox" (for completeness). -DePiep (talk) 21:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ I've been using Firefox and Modern. I see that it displays better in most of the simpler skins with bigger fonts, so that is probably good enough. You've done a good job with this chart, thanks for your work. -- ?oyo?? 00:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
At last: bullet fixed on the exact position
At last, I have reached this: the bullet-position is independent of the font/symbolwidth/skin (tested up to font-size:200%). Everything is done by px. The whole trapeziod area is positioned hardcoded. This does not solve the overlapping problem we are here talking. Can you tell: do you prefer 120% or 100% font-size? -DePiep (talk) 23:54, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Tiny font-size
The vowels of the chart now appear very small and diacritics don't appear properly. I couldn't deal with the template because it's not easy to edit. So, would someone please make the vowel font-sizes bigger as they used to be? I think they were 120% or 125%. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 13:42, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
WP:RM Template:IPA vowel chart -> Template:IPA chart vowels
Per naming scheme, see Category:IPA chart templates, Template:IPA vowel chart should be at Template:IPA chart vowels. Indiana State (talk) 03:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ move done today (not by me, see below). I changed some double redirects, it was getting circular with all the earlier stuff. Looks fine now. -DePiep (talk) 17:35, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Requested move
Title and footnote
I don't believe the initial remedy to have been adequate, 'cause we shouldn't be calling it the "IPA vowel chart" if it's not that. Also, I see no pressing need in cluttering the template with a footnote about how it differs exactly and why. I think the most elegant solution would be to reword the title slightly, e.g. to say "IPA-symbol" or "IPA-derived"; it'll get the point across to those to whom it matters. 213.7.22.7 (talk) 23:56, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Bullet after æ
Why is there a bullet after æ when there's no rounded counterpart? There isn't a bullet after ? or before ?. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Zgialor (talk o contribs) 17:58, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
- ? does not specify roundness. Note that the bullets on the official chart denote cardinality, so they should really only be found at intersections. ? should be moved to the right, and the ?-? pair should be moved to the left. 62.228.118.129 (talk) 23:01, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
added images
To remind people that the trapezoid we use isn't the only way to represent vowel space, I added the original articulatory quadrilateral and the formant triangle. -- kwami (talk) 19:25, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Reverted as too much "clutter", but what do people think? Should we reflect only one conception, or remind people there are other ways of looking at it? People have spend a lot of time here worrying about what a low central vowel is, perhaps unnecessarily. -- kwami (talk) 19:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Display problems
In my browser (Google Chrome 52.0.2743.116 m), each unrounded-rounded pair of IPA symbols in the table displays a little too far to the right, making the left symbol cover up half of the rounded dot. Does it display the same way for other people as well? This should be fixed; it looks bad. -- Eru·tuon 20:49, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
I moved the bullet to the right in {{IPA chart/table vowels/vowelpair}}, which is used in {{IPA chart/table vowels}}, which is used in this template. Now {{IPA chart/table vowels}} and {{IPA navigation}} look terrible, while this template looks okay. Frustrating. -- Eru·tuon 00:18, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Why the name is "IPA chart vowels"?
I have this question, because it is rather "extended" but not standard, like in The_International_Phonetic_Alphabet_(revised_to_2015).pdf--Divega (talk) 19:56, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Source of the article : Wikipedia
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